The Credenda Variance II
credenda: a doctrine that requires belief; article of faith (from credere = to believe, related to the word creed)
variance: the fact or quality of being different, divergent or inconsistent… a discrepancy between two statements or documents
So I had another interesting conversation w/ a fellow Christian about titles, he was fairly arrogant & adamant about what he believed so I thought I'd feel him out a little, press him on his beliefs & see how far he'd take it; here's the discourse as follows:
Me: So tell me again why you call your pastor “Pastor ___________”.
Them: I'm just showing him respect. You need to call him “Pastor” too, he deserves respect; calling him by his first name is disrespectful, he's a pastor, not your best friend.
Me: Hmmmm…. Well, I'll be honest, that's just about the dumbest thing I've heard in some time. There is disrespect present but it's on your part, not theirs.
Them (angry & incredulous): What did you just say?
Me: You heard me, you're the one being disrespectful.
Them: How is it disrespectful in honoring your pastor?
Me: I didn't say you were disrespectful in honoring him, you're disrespecting Jesus.
Them (just about to explode): I do not disrespect Jesus!
Me: In this case you are.
Them: I love Jesus, I would never disrespect Him!!!
Me: Do you believe His words & follow them?
Them: Of course I do.
Me: Obviously not in this case.
Them: How so?
Me: You completely disrespect Jesus when you call a pastor “Pastor _________”.
Them: I do not!!!
Me: May I ask you a couple of questions then?
Them: Sure.
Me: Who's the Son of God?
Them: Jesus.
Me: Was He God?
Them: Yes, fully God, fully man.
Me: So He's God.
Them: Yes, what does this have to do w/ what we're talking about?
Me: What's His name again?
Them: You know His name! JESUS! What does this have to do w/ anything?!
Me: Everything. So, you admit that Jesus is the Son of God, God Himself. Right?
Them: Yes, of course. Jesus is God. What are you getting at?
Me: In Matthew 23, Jesus instructed His Disciples (& by extension all those who follow Him) to not call anyone Father, Master, Teacher, etc… He specifically said “it shall not be so among you”, in other words, to paraphrase this passage/teaching He's saying “drop the titles”. You have zero problem calling God by His first name but have major problems w/ anyone not calling a pastor, a mere human, by the title of “pastor” when God told you not to. Can you see the problem here? Can you see the inconsistency, the variance in your thinking?
Them (walking away): You're trying to confuse me & I'm ending this conversation right now. I'm going to continue honoring & respecting my pastor by addressing him as one, regardless of what you say & how you try to twist Scripture.
Me: I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not twisting anything, all I'm doing is telling you what Scripture says; what Jesus Himself said & asking you to re-examine your mindset on this, that's all...
I've had this conversation so many times w/ different people, you'll hear them talk about Jesus & they never, ever use the term Pastor Jesus, Apostle Jesus, Prophet Jesus, etc it's always just one name: Jesus. Like this person I was talking to, they have no problem calling the Son of God by one name & one name only yet they insist on calling people by titles & berate those who don't.
Note: Sometimes I'll completely agree w/ someone on some theological point but I'll approach the conversation from an unbeliever's point of view, 'just to see if they truly "have an answer for the hope that is within them" or they're just spouting some doctrinal/denominational belief. It's probably not the nicest thing to do but I do like to see where people are at & how they handle opposition, differing views or a challenge to their beliefs.
variance: the fact or quality of being different, divergent or inconsistent… a discrepancy between two statements or documents
So I had another interesting conversation w/ a fellow Christian about titles, he was fairly arrogant & adamant about what he believed so I thought I'd feel him out a little, press him on his beliefs & see how far he'd take it; here's the discourse as follows:
Me: So tell me again why you call your pastor “Pastor ___________”.
Them: I'm just showing him respect. You need to call him “Pastor” too, he deserves respect; calling him by his first name is disrespectful, he's a pastor, not your best friend.
Me: Hmmmm…. Well, I'll be honest, that's just about the dumbest thing I've heard in some time. There is disrespect present but it's on your part, not theirs.
Them (angry & incredulous): What did you just say?
Me: You heard me, you're the one being disrespectful.
Them: How is it disrespectful in honoring your pastor?
Me: I didn't say you were disrespectful in honoring him, you're disrespecting Jesus.
Them (just about to explode): I do not disrespect Jesus!
Me: In this case you are.
Them: I love Jesus, I would never disrespect Him!!!
Me: Do you believe His words & follow them?
Them: Of course I do.
Me: Obviously not in this case.
Them: How so?
Me: You completely disrespect Jesus when you call a pastor “Pastor _________”.
Them: I do not!!!
Me: May I ask you a couple of questions then?
Them: Sure.
Me: Who's the Son of God?
Them: Jesus.
Me: Was He God?
Them: Yes, fully God, fully man.
Me: So He's God.
Them: Yes, what does this have to do w/ what we're talking about?
Me: What's His name again?
Them: You know His name! JESUS! What does this have to do w/ anything?!
Me: Everything. So, you admit that Jesus is the Son of God, God Himself. Right?
Them: Yes, of course. Jesus is God. What are you getting at?
Me: In Matthew 23, Jesus instructed His Disciples (& by extension all those who follow Him) to not call anyone Father, Master, Teacher, etc… He specifically said “it shall not be so among you”, in other words, to paraphrase this passage/teaching He's saying “drop the titles”. You have zero problem calling God by His first name but have major problems w/ anyone not calling a pastor, a mere human, by the title of “pastor” when God told you not to. Can you see the problem here? Can you see the inconsistency, the variance in your thinking?
Them (walking away): You're trying to confuse me & I'm ending this conversation right now. I'm going to continue honoring & respecting my pastor by addressing him as one, regardless of what you say & how you try to twist Scripture.
Me: I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not twisting anything, all I'm doing is telling you what Scripture says; what Jesus Himself said & asking you to re-examine your mindset on this, that's all...
I've had this conversation so many times w/ different people, you'll hear them talk about Jesus & they never, ever use the term Pastor Jesus, Apostle Jesus, Prophet Jesus, etc it's always just one name: Jesus. Like this person I was talking to, they have no problem calling the Son of God by one name & one name only yet they insist on calling people by titles & berate those who don't.
Note: Sometimes I'll completely agree w/ someone on some theological point but I'll approach the conversation from an unbeliever's point of view, 'just to see if they truly "have an answer for the hope that is within them" or they're just spouting some doctrinal/denominational belief. It's probably not the nicest thing to do but I do like to see where people are at & how they handle opposition, differing views or a challenge to their beliefs.
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